The New Duelist Changes and Why I Think It's Unhealthy For The Game

[Solvaxus]

The new duelist changes are as follows for those who are unaware:
Patch Notes 13/10/2020

Jedi
The Lightsaber Duelist's (3/4/5 bonus) has been upgraded to the following stats:

3-Piece Bonus
+2% Jedi Strike Damage
+5% Sweep Action Cost
+1 Second cooldown reduction to Saber Flurry
+10% Saber Flurry Fast Attack Chance

4-Piece Bonus
+4% Jedi Strike Damage
+10% Sweep Action Cost
+2 Second cooldown reduction to Saber Flurry
+15% Saber Flurry Fast Attack Chance

5-Piece Bonus
+6% Jedi Strike Damage
+20% Sweep Action Cost~
+1 Second cooldown reduction to Jedi Strike
+4 Second cooldown reduction to Saber Flurry
+20% Saber Flurry Fast Attack Chance

Here is what Duelist was before:

3-piece Bonus
+5% Strike Action Cost
+5% Sweep Action Cost
+1 Sec reduction Saber Flurry Cooldown

4-piece Bonus
+10% Strike Action Cost
+10% Sweep Action Cost
+2 Sec reduction Saber Flurry Cooldown

5-piece Bonus
+15% Strike Action Cost
+15% Sweep Action Cost
0.5 sec reduction in Strike Cooldown
1 sec reduction in Sweep Cooldown
4 sec reduction Saber Flurry Cooldown

Before I get into the crux of the issue I'll bring up what I think is positive about this change.

- It adds a new dynamic to LSJ which you can subjectively claim makes it more appealing/fun to play.

That's about all I can come up with, now let's look at the negatives.

- It does not address the LSJ v DSJ dynamic (I'll explain that later) and only serves to make LSJ v Non DSJ matchups more LSJ dominant.

- I have said this before and I will say it again I don't think Duelist needed a buff, it was an underrated set that more than served it's purpose.

- Taking away Strike Action Cost while keeping the cooldown reduction on Strike will now give LSJs action management issues when using this set, which weren't present before, serving to draw out the LSJ v Medic matchup but not really change the outcome.

- The extra Strike Damage was unnecessary, especially considering Strike Damage (as confirmed by Matar) does not contribute to Flurry damage. I think it's only purpose was to fill the spot of Strike Action Cost Reduction. LSJs can already do a ton of damage when built correctly, they do not need extra avenues to acquire more damage.

- The 20% chance to completely reset Flurry's cooldown requires the player to do nothing but spam Flurry on cooldown, it is mindless and requires no effort on the player's part, and when it occurs it essentially becomes an "I win" button against non DSJs. DSJs will continue to laugh at your futile effort in taking them down even if you were to somehow manage to string together 3 flurry resets in a row, which if you consider the 40% dire chance being as inconsistent as it is, is unlikely to happen.

So because I said I'd explain it, what is the core issue of the LSJ v DSJ matchup? I've explained this already on Legends and Prophecy but the crux of the issue is that both specs get access to improved Saber Block, but DSJ has more methods of penetrating Saber Block than LSJ does. Maelstrom, Drain, Choke and Sweep all go right through single target defensive modifiers like Parry, while LSJ only really has access to Sweep. This means the LSJ is only going to have a very short window in which to kill the DSJ which is after their Saber Block has fallen, and if they fail they are very likely to die. This is due in part to the fact that while both players are attacking each other while Saber Block is active, the DSJ is actively pressuring the LSJ while the LSJ has to stand there and pray they can survive long enough to outlive Saber Block. Strategies for dealing with this side of the matchup have come and gone, one of which is the LSJ can just straight up run away once they see the DSJ pop saber block and come back with their Saber Block/Reflect up to hopefully kill the DSJ before their Saber Block comes back up. This however, will only work on bad DSJs and becomes unreliable after the first time it's used.

I think they should go back to the drawing board with this change. Matar has told me that every class should have their weaknesses, and for LSJ that is DSJ. That is fine, but there is no reason to make LSJ more dominant against other classes. That's the main gripe I have with this change.

 

[XaosKun]

The only thing unhealthy here is your consistent whining and crying on a server that You do Not Even Play On.

Face the facts. Solvaxus does not play on this server, he has no bargaining chips at all. The Lightsaber Duelist Changes were my original ideas and this server has openly welcomed those changes! Accept it!

 

[Solvaxus]

The only thing unhealthy here is your consistent whining and crying on a server that You do Not Even Play On.

Are you dense? Why would matar ask me to make a post about changes to a server I don't play on?

Face the facts. Solvaxus does not play on this server, he has no bargaining chips at all.

yawn repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

The Lightsaber Duelist Changes were my original ideas and this server has openly welcomed those changes! Accept it!

You can't even come up with a coherent reason for why these changes are good or bad, just goes to prove my point that you didn't think this idea through at all.

 

[Esquire]

Not this again...….. from even the same names......

1st off, That idea on the duelist set is one of the reasons I'm trying this server along with the new world and new content. The ability for a server owner/developer to even try to close the gap between LS and DS is a draw to that particular server.

I just came from a server that took the guard set and added 5 parry (1 for each set piece) to try and close the gap. Interesting enough, it did some good and gap closing as I was most probably using parry 75% of the time for all DS abilities that didn't have by-pass. That was a very good addition. He did try and change the duelists set but those changes were pretty lax in measure.

I applaud Xaos, and this server owner/dev for making the attempt. My jedi is level 20 something so I haven't got to the point of testing these changes.

However, Sol is correct on by-pass. It was OP on live after the jedi re-vamp and it got worse after SOE changed drain to hit every time, (post jedi re-vamp when all the DS were crying about cloning when their drains didn't hit), which was really the only downside to DS, that they might miss a drain. But what are you going to do about that root problem? Nerf by-pass???? Too many other servers do not, and are not, going to do that nerf. Any1 that plays DS will simply go there. Besides that, I had enough of nerfs with NERF WARS (Pub 9 thru CU), NGE, and The Chapter Six Combat Downgrade to EVER even suggest a nerf to anything that some1 else had or has. And this comes from another SWG past private server owner (SWG CHOICE - EMU Powered) - I can say the name as it doesn't exist any longer and will not ever again.

Sol, u didn't do any favors to the server that we all had this convo on in the years "befores" by coming off so against any ideas for changes in the battle of DS v LS and having your "clan" of posters (the same names there again in those threads) parrot your posts. We all simply went to other servers, it would seem, that would make the attempt. Less red dots for you to kill in that servers PVP, less economy, etc etc etc. And to just say, "DS is LS's bain" is pure bunk. Takes out gameplay that existed since jedi was even a gleam in Koster's eye. LS v DS duals. May have been a pain in the arse to watch in front of the ME tina, but it happened, every day and every day and every day.

The weakness for LS is the same as was explained in all those other threads. LS's range is terribad, not Ok, not even worse than that, but the worst range in the game. And if some1 is stupid enough to get within that range, they deserve what they get. That's the counter, stay out of that VERY small range. DS is ranged, they can do it easily with their 30m range on BP and the same FR that LS get. Not to even mention that DS has the large edge in owned crit, that LS doesn't have and never will have thereby keeping their DPS down.

Again, nice job Beyond for even making the attempt. Anything is better than Blixtev's post after the jedi re-vamp. If you've forgotten, this was how Blixtev (SOE's lead developer at the time, saw it) and the match up......

"DS = PVP (DPS)

LS = PVE (tank)"

Some development there huh? Take out 1/2 the entire game (PVP) for a (any) profession, one that was so …., uhhhh, "Iconic" (SOE term, not mine) in nature.